but a lot of your colleagues are saying it, bob corker has said it, lindsay graham has said it. they've said they'll allow for more revenue via taxes, close loopholes, however you do it, that isn't revenue neutral. you're saying you agree with that, at least now. but not in the long-term, correct? >> yeah, look, i'm saying there are a lot of ways to skin a cat and we need comprehensive tax reform. you have to look at something carefully to decide whether or not you think it is an aggregate tax increase, so it's difficult to define what is or what is not a tax increase. i am against tax increases, but i am in favor of stabilizing our revenue stream. >> okay, but do you have frustration with grover norquist in such an absolutist definition of revenue neutral. because if over time, it could mean you're never raising more revenue, revenue could not go up. he's put you in a difficult position. does it frustrate you? >> no. look, my pledge wasn't to any one individual. the pledge that i made was to my constituents, the voters in utah who elected me and found it significant that i was